How To Make A Living Writing Music For Films/TV with Nick Morrison

00:00.00

Eyvindur

All right and speaking of goals 1 of my goals is to get into the film music game and I'm going to take advantage of having a guest on today who knows a lot about that Nick Morris and welcome to my podcast. So nice to have you great.

00:12.92

Nick Morrison

Hello Sir Thank you for having me I'm pleasure to be here.

00:19.57

Eyvindur

So before we get started. Can you tell us a little bit about yourself and your story and all of that stuff give us the well I mean are we talking war in peace long or are we talking.

00:26.85

Nick Morrison

Yeah, do you want the the short version or the long version.

00:36.19

Nick Morrison

Ah I can do war and peace I'll I'll try to sum it up and keep it keep it relatively short so that your listeners don't fall asleep. Um, so so I've been a professional music I've been a professional musician for over 20 years at this point um primarily playing guitar.

00:38.58

Eyvindur

Ah, go ahead, give us.

00:55.77

Nick Morrison

But I dabble in a few other instruments as most musicians do and around 2008 2009 I decided that I didn't really want to be playing in front of people as much anymore and being touring and you know, um, looking for ways to expand.

00:57.36

Eyvindur

Yeah.

01:15.48

Nick Morrison

My earning potential rather than just me on stage playing or me in studio playing or even me in studio creating and writing but I was looking for ways to expand my my income and of course the internet being what it was the big. You know topic and I'm sure you've seen it if you watch any sort of Youtube or anything is passive income passive income passive income which is of course a myth. but um you know but I was I was looking at ways to to do that and ah a friend of mine was getting starting to sort of get involved with.

01:37.30

Eyvindur

Passive Income Yeah, of course.

01:50.60

Nick Morrison

Ah, writing Jingles for radio stations and he said to me he says you know what you should probably do is is you know, kind of what I'm doing like start calling your local radio stations and see if they would you know Accept Demos and maybe they can contract with you and da da da da so I started doing that and um and then around that time I had Found. If you remember back in the days when there were such things as music magazines you know like guitar player and guitar player. One music industry pro There were like there was a ton of them. But in the back there was usually an ad about Yay big and it was something like are you a singer-songwriter or a band looking to get paid for your music join taxi today.

02:12.41

Eyvindur

Oh yeah.

02:28.22

Eyvindur

Um, oh yeah.

02:30.90

Nick Morrison

And blah blah blah the world's biggest a and r agency and I was like huh that's interesting because I was having no luck with the Jingle thing and well I shouldn't say no luck just not a lot of luck a few little things here and there and and so I looked at this taxi ad and I thought okay well that would be interesting. Why not give it a shot so I checked it out blah blah blah took.

02:34.70

Eyvindur

Yeah.

02:49.56

Nick Morrison

Plunge and and and started using that service and for those of your listeners that maybe don't know taxi is an independent a and r agency and what that means is basically ad agencies businesses radio production companies marketing agencies, film companies Tv company like. Anything that needs music will contact taxi and say hey we're looking for x y z and then taxi puts out a listing they call it to their membership and says hey we're accepting demos for http://dot.dotdot and then you you pitch your ideas. And they've got or you pitch your tracks and they've got a whole panel of what they call screeners that listen through and basically do the good pile bad pile and all the good stuff gets sent to the company and all the bad stuff is is rejected and and then from there if the company likes your stuff. They'll get in touch with you directly. And either you know, pay you upfront in terms of ah, a sync fee or they'll pay you on the back end royalties or they'll do both or you know, whatever every every company and every deal is a little bit different. So anyway I started getting involved with them and I started having some success and I started making really great connections in the business. Um. Couple really good licensing agencies and and ad houses that I was working with I was starting to get more and more work around that time I moved to Vancouver which is at that time was still kind of Hollywood North it went through a kind of a depression through the mid 2010 s and. Starting to maybe to see a little bit of a resurgence now. But while I was there I was also then you know two feet in a heartbeat going door to door you know to to make connections and meet other professionals and meet marketing agencies and so on and so forth and that's kind of how I got my start with with film and Tv and here we are. 22 so it's been 12 or fourteen years later and I'm still doing it so I must be doing something right? But I've I've also you know, expanded my business as well. I also do um and I know this is not necessarily of interest to your listeners. But I do I do book narration audio narration that sort of thing production consulting.

04:40.34

Eyvindur

Yeah.

04:54.77

Nick Morrison

And um, and Education I Teach I Teach Guitar Young Well young and not so young Guitar players. How to get better at the Instrument. So That's kind of the the focus of my business. These days is doing that but I still do the film and television stuff too. But I've gotten.. It's nice I've gotten to a point where I don't necessarily have to go out and. Try and find new business every couple of weeks right? I've got enough residuals coming in now that I can kind of relax a little bit with with that end of the business. Yeah, it is not yeah, it's It's funny because it's it's a myth and it's not a myth I think it's a myth in the sense where a lot of internet marketers say oh passive Income Passive income.

05:14.61

Eyvindur

Right.

05:22.39

Eyvindur

Passive income.

05:33.62

Nick Morrison

You know, join my join my program and pay me whatever $2000 or whatever $500 um join my program and you're going to have passive income in three months and it's like well it doesn't really work like that you know to get to that point you have to you have to build a business and some businesses it's six six to 18 months others it's 5 to 10 years before you have an actual.

05:36.34

Eyvindur

Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

05:53.43

Nick Morrison

Passive Income stream coming in from you know, creative work. But ultimately yeah, as creators we can get there.

05:59.83

Eyvindur

It's to me, it's It's not about like sitting back and not working. It's about not getting paid for showing up somewhere and staying there for hours. That's that's really the you know it's it. Yeah, that's the goal of you know.

06:07.82

Nick Morrison

Correct Yeah, the goal totally.

06:16.67

Eyvindur

Not not being not you know, being a gigging musician. Yeah.

06:19.62

Nick Morrison

Yeah, which is also fun of course covid notwithstanding I mean I haven't I haven't really gigged in the past almost three years but but it's nice too cause like you said it's like you know I used to. Had 2 rules when I was when I was playing like when I was doing session work and and and turing support. It was basically as long as I don't get hurt physically um and as long as it doesn't embarrass me or my family in some way I say yes to every opportunity as long as it fit in my schedule you know, um.

06:46.30

Eyvindur

Um, yeah.

06:54.10

Nick Morrison

Which was good and bad. It meant I made I made money and I could eat and I could have a career but it also meant that I ended up playing a lot of shows and a lot of bands and a lot of um sessions where I was like man I wish I wasn't doing this right now you know and and now you know I have that ability if something comes in.

06:56.67

Eyvindur

Yeah.

07:08.61

Eyvindur

Ah, yeah.

07:13.24

Nick Morrison

I can I can look at it and say Wow. Thank you so much for the offer I'm touched that you thought of me but I'm you know I'm just too busy right now I can't I can't take that project on you know? yeah.

07:18.61

Eyvindur

Yeah, yeah, well I mean it it to me, you know, obviously um, those who know me know that I do a lot of probably most of my professional work these days in theater.

07:34.60

Nick Morrison

E m.

07:37.15

Eyvindur

And you know and that's you know I write songs and music for for theater productions and so ah, you know when I connected with you. It was actually kind of like yeah it was. It was very fortunate because it's you know, getting into.

07:40.90

Nick Morrison

Nice.

07:54.56

Eyvindur

Film and Tv is something that I've been interested in pursuing for a long time and so you know I'm I'm eager to to learn from you know to get some sage advice from you. Um, yeah, so um, first of all, ah.

08:05.76

Nick Morrison

Ah, absolutely I hope I can be helpful.

08:14.46

Eyvindur

Are you writing are you is It are you writing scores or or songs What what kind of stuff are you are you doing.

08:19.32

Nick Morrison

Ah, yeah, absolutely so there's ah, a kind of a wide gambit of film and Tv music primarily what I do is what's called interstitial music. Um, so sort of like bumpers kind of in and outs.

08:32.65

Eyvindur

Sure, um.

08:37.92

Nick Morrison

Um, and then others would be called like ah replacement tracks. So what that means is ah, let's say there's a production going on and you know you get a young guy on a leather jacket and he's driving a Thunderbird and they want to have you know Ah Elvis Presley plan or something because it's like a period piece but you know it's a smaller production and they obviously don't have. $300000 to license the original elvis presley track they'll come to a guy like me and say hey we need you know 28 seconds of a song that sounds like hound dog can you make it and with no vocals. So yeah, so that's part of it so sound alike tracks are are 1 interstitial stuff is another and then.

08:58.34

Eyvindur

M.

09:06.41

Eyvindur

Okay.

09:16.16

Nick Morrison

The other ones are sort of background pieces where a lot of times at least when I started before people would necessarily come to me with specific wants and needs. You basically just write a track. You know, kind of with an intended use in mind picture yourself sitting and watching you know a and e or national geographic or whatever and listen to that music. Going on in the background and that kind of music where you just you kind of write it and it can be anywhere from 2 minutes to 3 minutes to 4 minutes and it's stuff that's meant to augment visuals but not necessarily get in the way. So the the idea is is that you give the the music supervisor and the editor a lot of stuff to work with.

09:45.93

Eyvindur

Okay.

09:55.41

Nick Morrison

So it's a lot of dynamics and you know you might start off with like a simple guitar piece and then you add a shaker and then maybe a little bit of Keyboard like some pad strings and then you add drums and then you drop it back out to just the strings and guitar and so you can kind of build a track So it's a standalone piece of music if you were to listen to it.

10:12.30

Eyvindur

Um.

10:14.35

Nick Morrison

But it also then lends itself to cut very easily in and out of any particular scene that's being used and then of course there are the custom track options which I kind of talked about where maybe a company comes to you and says hey we need. We're doing a radio spot. You know we need a thirty second piece

10:16.59

Eyvindur

Yeah.

10:33.56

Nick Morrison

We'd really love you know some kind of grungy Biker kind of music you know can you can you do something like a biker band. Okay, cool and and then off you go? um and then of course there are there is score composition which is a a very different um thing I don't do that specifically.

10:36.72

Eyvindur

Um, yeah.

10:52.63

Nick Morrison

Have worked with some smaller like independent filmmakers mostly student filmmakers where you compose to screen so they've already shot the the scene and then you're composing something to like sort of augment the emotions that the characters are feeling and that's a very different kind of a different skill set and a different type of thing altogether. But.

10:55.66

Eyvindur

Yeah.

11:12.67

Nick Morrison

Primarily like I said I I make those those smaller sort of standalone tracks. No.

11:14.84

Eyvindur

Okay, and so you kind of touched on this. But um I guess nowadays you get commissioned a bit but um, but but like you you you hinted that that you know that's.

11:26.48

Nick Morrison

Yeah.

11:33.15

Eyvindur

Maybe a more recent thing so before were you working through music libraries or how does that work.

11:35.70

Nick Morrison

Yeah, so primarily through music libraries and again you know using taxi I was able to establish a few really good working relationships with some of the larger licensing houses in the us Canada and I think there's one in Australia and um. And what they do is. It's kind of a they get paid to pitch your music to various productions. So again, kind of like taxi where you know, ah an end user needs something specific so that user will go to the library and say hey we're looking for.

12:03.94

Eyvindur

No.

12:15.63

Nick Morrison

This style of track you know around this bpm this type of mood this type of instrumentation and they'll go through their giant catalog because it won't be you know 1 or 2 people. They actually you know contract with hundreds of different writers composers producers and they'll they'll shuffle through and they'll find you know 30

12:23.20

Eyvindur

Right.

12:34.82

Nick Morrison

Pieces that they've got and then they'll send that off to the client and then the client can kind of choose the one that they like the best yeah, which is which is fun because that allows you to kind of get creative with stuff and if you're if you're doing like sync fee placements. Um, or even just royalty placements. But like if you're doing that kind of stuff. It gives you a bit more creative freedom where you can kind of just be like well this is the style of music that I create and I'm going to just make track track track track track track track and then you send it to them. You know, 8 out of 10. they they take they'll sign and I'm talking about the library not necessarily an end user. Um, and then it's up to that library to just kind of go out and pitch it and then you'll never necessarily know if it gets used or not until you get your your performance rights organization statement in the mail or via email now. Um you know once a quarter or once every six months.

13:09.26

Eyvindur

Um, yeah.

13:25.60

Nick Morrison

Um, and then you get that deposit in your bank account. You're like oh cool I got a usage that.

13:27.57

Eyvindur

Yeah, and so you mentioned 2 different ah payment types I guess sync sync and royalties can you can you explain how how those work and what's the difference.

13:34.63

Nick Morrison

Um, yeah, yeah, So there's going to be um and they call them different things but basically a sync fee would be ah, an amount of money agreed upon at the beginning of the contract. That a company or a production house. Whatever pays you um on signing of the contract to use your work.. Typically we find these in like buyout packages where you're going to get more if you're doing like commissioned work or stuff that's like very usage specific. So like hey we want to buy X Y Z track from you and then you get paid X number of dollars upfront for it and typically then that also will include something in the in the contract where they're not going to pay you royalties on the back end. Although sometimes they do both So That's that's like an upfront fee and this is the.

14:23.54

Eyvindur

Right.

14:31.64

Nick Morrison

What's called a sync fee or a mechanical license. Basically for them to or ah to use your music on a media usage right? So on Tv on in a film over the internet. Whatever then the the other thing is royalties or performance royalties and this is a set fee standardized by. Um, in the states. There's Bmi and Ascap Canada we have so can I'm not sure what would exist where you are. But I'm sure there's a performance rate society of some sort and they're in charge of sort of setting rates and collecting fees. So every time that production errors you know, um.

14:59.40

Eyvindur

What's yeah yeah.

15:11.15

Nick Morrison

Percentage of the profits from that show being on Abc Nbc Cbs whatever gets paid to the writers. the creators the producers the music the musicians the composers that kind of stuff and that's where.

15:17.45

Eyvindur

Sure.

15:25.58

Nick Morrison

I don't want to say necessarily the biggest money but it's kind of like that's where the best money can be if you get your if you get your music licensed on a big show that ends up in syndication worldwide like think about the guys that did the the soundtrack or the theme song for friends. For example, you know here we are thirty odd years later and that show is still on Tv.

15:31.93

Eyvindur

Yeah.

15:39.32

Eyvindur

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

15:44.92

Nick Morrison

Hundred and fifty odd countries around the world like boom you're done. You're set. You're good like that's passive. That's real passive income you know? um, but that's yeah, that's kind of a dream does that kind of delineate for you? Yeah okay, cool. Yeah.

15:55.42

Eyvindur

Um, yeah, yeah, yeah, that makes sense. Yeah, um, and so yeah, so um, how how would you get like you know can for me I've not done any of this. Um, ever.

16:09.36

Nick Morrison

Right.

16:12.77

Eyvindur

But you know, um, a lot of the stuff that you're talking about is very similar to the things that I write for theater. You know the background you know I've just been I've been creating those background songs or tracks I guess.

16:18.14

Nick Morrison

Yeah.

16:26.74

Nick Morrison

Sure yeah.

16:28.86

Eyvindur

For for the production I'm working on now you know and it's exactly the same. You know it's kind of layered and you know you add in 1 and then you add in another and so that it can all be ah switched around anyway and of course interstitials is something that I do a lot of for for various productions. Um, and even even score you know I've done.

16:34.61

Nick Morrison

He.

16:41.56

Nick Morrison

Yeah.

16:48.70

Eyvindur

Ah, things of that. Well you know, sort of so um, but how would I get started. You know where where do I begin to to get into this.

16:56.27

Nick Morrison

Um, um, well I mean really, it's it The the best or I should um I don't even know if it's the best way but like what I would say is my way What happens is you know you end up talking to a friend or or a colleague or or somebody that you know in the business you kind of ask kind of like we're doing. It's like.

17:07.19

Eyvindur

Yeah, yeah.

17:15.30

Nick Morrison

Well, how do you get started? Well you know you you start local. You know, approach radio stations approach. There's got to be advertising agencies close to where you live I'm sure you know if you just use Google there's probably 2 or 3 Um, you know you're probably going to be met with a lot of nose at first. Um, but you know you keep trying and you go to.

17:23.11

Eyvindur

Get plenty of them. M.

17:33.83

Nick Morrison

Networking events and you meet people and always have ah you know a business card or a demo cd or or Usb drive or you know now everything's Qr codes and you know cloud-based you know, instant access on your phone which is great because it makes this stuff really really easy. But you know, kind of always have that available. Gene Simmons is famous right? It's ah.

17:40.54

Eyvindur

Yeah. Yeah.

17:52.84

Nick Morrison

Famous for saying um you know if you're not going to promote yourself nobody also do it for you so you know don't be the creepy uncle that always shows up and tries to get their family to like join Amway but you know yeah, you do you do want to you know promote your music and talk about what it is that you do so that's always the best way right? like word of mouth feet on the ground.

17:55.70

Eyvindur

Yeah.

18:12.19

Nick Morrison

You know, actually being able to like have a 1 on 1 conversation with with with another person the second best way I truly believe is taxi. Um, you know it's a great membership site and it's a great service in so much as they they they exist entirely to support. They creative musician members everything that they do everything that they and please you know anybody listening I don't I don't work for them. I'm not a shill I'm not being paid to say this I just I truly believe in the organization and what they do and the other caveat to that isn't I'm no longer a member because I don't need it. Um, but.

18:40.33

Eyvindur

Right.

18:47.97

Eyvindur

Right.

18:51.67

Nick Morrison

You know their president Michael lascow he he even says you know the the number one the best way to get your music out. There is is 1 on one talking to people making real connections with music supervisors in real life. The second best way is taxi because you know if you're like me when I was started I actually lived in Japan at the time. How am I going to meet.

18:57.43

Eyvindur

Um, yeah, yeah.

19:09.87

Eyvindur

Um, yeah.

19:09.97

Nick Morrison

Music supervisors in l la you know or even now I'm in Calgary. How am I going to meet music supervisors in LA or Chicago or Toronto or New York you know like it can't happen so taxi is is that middleman that will really get you started and and going the third option.

19:17.92

Eyvindur

Same for me.

19:26.53

Nick Morrison

Which I would encourage you to do too or or any of your listeners that are interested in doing this are and again you can do a Google search for music licensing or music placement agencies and you can find a lot of them many of them have open submissions the the caveat to that is if you are you.

19:35.40

Eyvindur

Um, yeah, yeah.

19:44.29

Nick Morrison

Using a music licensing house that has open submissions. It means there's very, there's no, there's like no barrier to entry but anybody in their brother can get their music put in there. So what you'll find is that those places it's a bit of a needle need needle in a haystack where they'll have hundreds of thousands of composers.

19:49.46

Eyvindur

Yeah.

20:02.00

Nick Morrison

You know submitting millions of songs and it's a huge repository but there's really not necessarily a ton of quality. So the best bet then is to you know, have your stuff there if it doesn't get licensed or or placed anywhere else. Why not put it out there. There's always a chance. Um.

20:02.27

Eyvindur

Um, yeah.

20:07.92

Eyvindur

Oh.

20:18.50

Eyvindur

Oh.

20:21.91

Nick Morrison

But the the best way like I said is to is to make those connections and then look at those other the publishing houses that are more exclusive more choosy in who they decide to partner with and again you'll you'll kind of get to that point through you know, either you know.

20:30.88

Eyvindur

Right.

20:39.55

Nick Morrison

Connections and networking or through taxi or through you know, word of mouth taxi's got a great free forum and it's like Forums http://dottaxi.com I think it is you can sign up for free. You can network at the musicians look for collaborations um get feedback on mixes and. Because it's a very different thing I think composing and doing stuff specific for film and television because everything is very niche um and the kind of music that Nat Geo uses will be very different than the stuff that a and E will use which is then very different from.

21:04.95

Eyvindur

Oh.

21:14.98

Eyvindur

Sure.

21:15.52

Nick Morrison

Bbc or Cbs or Nbc Mtv etc etc, and there are different styles and different ways of composing and even different ways of mixing that is really prevalent in those specific genres and then um so you can you can kind of learn. Ah, little bit of the craft and get some feedback before you you know, kind of going crazy but collaborations I I think is another great way that you can expand your ah a skillset and b expand your networking because the the more you do that? hopefully.

21:45.68

Eyvindur

M.

21:52.47

Nick Morrison

People that you work with will have some connections and then what what am might to end up happening is that trek then gets licensed with one of those exclusive houses and then from there you you begin developing that relationship with that house personally and then from there more work comes and that's basically what happened with me is like I I you know started getting some placements early through taxi.

21:56.80

Eyvindur

Yeah, yeah.

22:05.96

Eyvindur

Mm.

22:12.47

Nick Morrison

Had a couple you know great relationships with with like 3 first 1 then 2 then 3 publishing houses and then basically all of my later work came filtered through those few connections that I had to this day even you know like 90% of the stuff that I get is because my track is with.

22:22.46

Eyvindur

Right.

22:30.86

Nick Morrison

1 of my tracks is with one of those houses and somebody that worked with somebody says oh you know Nick's track is really great here's you know here's this guy's contact info contact him directly? Um, yeah.

22:37.80

Eyvindur

Um, right. Yeah, um, ah you um, ah you mentioned those houses that you um, you know that you've kind of gotten in contact with through taxi and through your work. Um.

22:59.35

Nick Morrison

Um, yeah.

23:02.13

Eyvindur

And I know that there are you know, various different kinds of you know there are I know licensing companies that work primarily for commercials and others that work for Tv and others that you know work more for individuals and things. Um, yeah, boutique houses that was a word I was looking for. Yeah.

23:10.22

Nick Morrison

Yeah, yeah, yeah, there's like boutique houses. Um, yeah.

23:21.57

Eyvindur

Ah, and so ah and and also like they have different deals. So some of them are you know you sign your the stuff you know your music to them exclusively and others. You don't is there. Ah you know are there. Guidelines that you need to keep in mind. Let's say I would go out and you know again because you know I do live on a rock in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean so my my options when it I mean obviously I can you know network in my local area. But if I want it to expand to.

23:44.34

Nick Morrison

Right.

23:50.99

Nick Morrison

Um, yeah.

23:54.75

Eyvindur

To you know hollywood or to the yeah Uk or Australia or whatever. Then you know I'd have to do it online. So if I was going to go out and and find some um some of those licensing companies are there guidelines that I need to keep in mind to you know, make sure I'm selecting something because I'm sure that there are.

23:59.44

Nick Morrison

Um.

24:10.80

Nick Morrison

Sure.

24:14.25

Eyvindur

Bad ones out there and I'm sure that there are great ones out there so you probably need to be careful.

24:15.33

Nick Morrison

Yeah I mean the the bad ones or quote I mean everything's relative firstly. Um, but the thing that I kind of try to stay away from is you know those those licensing agencies if they have like a non-exclusive agreement.

24:20.37

Eyvindur

Of course.

24:34.43

Nick Morrison

And they're They're not very choosy I E they like the barrier to entry is can you connect to the website and create an account like they're probably not working very hard to get your like get your music placed. They're using like the shotgun approach right? like they're the fishing. They're the fishing boat with like a giant net off the back that just drags the ocean and grabs.

24:38.65

Eyvindur

Sure.

24:44.37

Eyvindur

Um, right? yeah.

24:52.52

Eyvindur

M.

24:53.22

Nick Morrison

Every fish they can whereas like a boutique house or a very specialty placement agency will be only looking to license music that they know understand love um or get a sense that they they 100% will be able to place it and get paid to do so.

25:02.31

Eyvindur

M.

25:08.77

Eyvindur

Yeah.

25:10.73

Nick Morrison

Because that's the other thing these places only get paid if you get paid. Um, so the exclusivity thing is like I said the the non-exclusive I mean you know it's up to the individual generally I don't really like it I like exclusive contracts because that says to me that the agency is going to work hard to make money the other thing and.

25:20.56

Eyvindur

Um, right.

25:27.63

Eyvindur

Yeah.

25:30.73

Nick Morrison

I would say it's relatively standard is the royalty split. So what ends up happening and I know a lot of new um, new composers or or new licensers tend to sort of prickle when I tell them this but the the standard rate is a fifty fifty split so what ends up happening is you own.

25:45.46

Eyvindur

Um, yeah, of course.

25:49.75

Nick Morrison

Hundred percent of your copyright because you should and you own mechanical production rights I e for like Cds you know that kind of stuff to reproduce your music but what you do is you split the the publishing royalties fifty fifty with the licensing agency and a lot of people go wow my god 50 like that's.

25:56.00

Eyvindur

Oh.

26:02.48

Eyvindur

Right.

26:09.46

Nick Morrison

It's half of my my income and you know I often I usually look at it like well you know if you're if you're brand new and you're unknown this is your best chance to get your music heard. Um and would you rather have 50% of something or 100% of nothing like your music's not going to make any money if nobody hears it. These people have.

26:17.22

Eyvindur

Yeah. Exactly here.

26:28.43

Nick Morrison

The lawyers the connections, the music super provide like all of the stuff they're an entire marketing team that you pay nothing for unless they make money with your music and then you split so to me it. It seems like a perfectly fair business deal Now once you establish a relationship with one of those houses. You know you get into you know.

26:31.59

Eyvindur

Yeah, yeah.

26:40.13

Eyvindur

Um, yeah.

26:47.59

Nick Morrison

Hundred or 200 to track with them or whatever you know enough times gone by or you know, maybe what'll happen is usually they will sign your tracks for a period of anywhere between 2 and let's say 10 years you know once the the licensing agreement comes to an end. You can always renegotiate.

27:04.16

Eyvindur

Um, yeah.

27:06.32

Nick Morrison

And once that established that business relationship has been established and you're looking to renegotiate. They may not want to keep you right? if they if they haven't made any money with you then they probably won't keep your track. But if they have they're going to want to keep it on board because they know that they'll be ah they'll be able to continue making money. But at that point you you could broach the subject like you know hey I'm really happy working with you guys you guys.

27:11.10

Eyvindur

Yeah.

27:25.74

Nick Morrison

You you know, made us we've made ah a lot of money together. It's been a good business relationship. Um, however, I'm I'm looking at or I'm thinking about you know, maybe changing that royalty split could we do a sixty forty or a seventy five twenty five you know that kind of thing and they may and I'm not you know I'm not promising anything but they may be open to that once that that business. Relationship is established but certainly not right away so that's you know, kind of 1 thing to consider and then you know, usage and territory rights as well. I mean basically now with the age of the internet. Basically everything is you know, universal or at least worldwide and and and again, that's good. You want something like that because.

27:44.98

Eyvindur

Ah.

27:59.16

Eyvindur

Yeah.

28:03.92

Nick Morrison

Otherwise you know you're going to have to go and find somebody specifically in Eurasia and you know Europe and then North America and then you know South America every time you have to go out and find a new house in every jurisdiction. It's like ah man what a pain? Um, so.

28:12.10

Eyvindur

Yeah, yeah.

28:19.83

Nick Morrison

You know if you can find an agency that's that's willing to look and place your stuff worldwide then then that's good news.

28:23.52

Eyvindur

Yeah, yeah, um and I just really quickly because you you know you talk a lot about taxi and and you know when I was sort of doing a little bit of research you know I read some articles and and. And one of the things that I saw was you know people sort of warned against sites like taxi just for the fact that it's you know you need to pay to use it. Ah but um, from what it sounds like to me.

28:45.60

Nick Morrison

E.

28:57.72

Eyvindur

You know it seems like a good although I mean yeah, it seems like a good way to get like get your food in the door and get some experience going and also um, one of the reasons that I actually have looked at taxi is that it's a great place to get feedback because.

29:14.70

Nick Morrison

Yeah, yes, yeah, an actual written feedback on your music in terms of your mix songwriting build crescent like they'll give you technical feedback. Um on it as well. And if yeah.

29:17.41

Eyvindur

You get you get a written thing right with feedback on your music. So yeah. Yeah, so that to me is is you know you're you're you're paying for it's It's an educational thing so that was just ah, an aside ah before it slipped my mind.

29:33.53

Nick Morrison

Totally totally. Yeah I mean yeah I think a lot of people again. It's like the fifty fifty split thing. You know when somebody's. And I understand it right? they're they're just starting out. They're like well I don't really have any money or you know I have a very limited budget or whatever. It's not that expensive I think it's like three hundred bucks a year or something like that. Um, and you know I think the part of it that where it comes from I think.

29:49.90

Eyvindur

Um, yeah. M.

30:06.92

Nick Morrison

There's an old adage right? like never pay somebody to listen to your music. But I think what that is in reference to specifically is like if you're a band excuse me with like an album and you're looking to get um you know a management deal or you're looking to make a record deal or you're looking like that kind of thing you don't want to pay people.

30:08.25

Eyvindur

Um, yeah.

30:20.10

Eyvindur

Yeah.

30:26.30

Nick Morrison

To necessarily listen to your music to be like yeah, it's great or no, it's not or whatever. Um, unless that person that you're paying for the service is asking a reasonable to very low sum of money and the connections Network and education that you're going to get from that person and sort of.

30:28.75

Eyvindur

Yeah.

30:38.69

Eyvindur

Um.

30:45.30

Nick Morrison

Professional development. You're going to get from that person is actually worthwhile and in the in the case of taxi I think it is and you you said it perfectly right? Like you're getting an education. You're getting feedback. You're getting professional um structure to to learn about the business. Um, and.

30:45.68

Eyvindur

Um, yeah.

30:58.48

Eyvindur

Yeah.

31:03.95

Nick Morrison

So for me, you know it's kind of a no-brainer it just it just makes sense to be able to do that. Can you do it without taxi. Absolutely you know you can do anything without anybody you know again, this is the age of the internet. It's 2022 you know you could put up a track on on Youtube and somebody could hear it and get in contact with you and great cool. Awesome! let's.

31:12.23

Eyvindur

Yeah.

31:22.47

Eyvindur

Yeah.

31:23.60

Nick Morrison

Let's work out a deal but the chances of that happening are fairly low because there's so much noise online you know.

31:26.81

Eyvindur

Yeah, yeah, that's the thing and you know, um you know a lot of people um enter songwriting competitions and that's another education opportunity because you do get feedback from that the chances of winning.

31:35.87

Nick Morrison

M. Totally. Very low. Yeah yeah, yeah.

31:46.75

Eyvindur

Ah, songwriting competition. No matter How great your songs are I mean it's It's just the odds are low because there are so many people competing for it and if you think about it ah submitting a song to taxi your odds of making money are. Probably higher just statistically speaking. Um, you know there are more people making money from that than from winning competitions and so you know and and obviously it costs money to enter those competitions and in some cases quite a lot of money and so you know.

32:04.25

Nick Morrison

Yes.

32:10.20

Nick Morrison

a hundred percent a hundred percent sure yeah well and again you know you you look at the the listings and the way they write them. It's very specific. What the usage like they won't they won't give out.

32:29.31

Eyvindur

Um, right.

32:29.74

Nick Morrison

You know, company details or singers like the the artists that you're writing for because they also do singer-songwriter submissions for famous artists like people that are looking for writers for their new album. For example, um, there are a couple um, very big country stars right now who have recorded.

32:39.30

Eyvindur

Yeah.

32:47.91

Nick Morrison

And have had Multiplatinum selling albums based on songs that were written or not based on but like songs written by taxing like that I personally know so now again, that's kind of like that songwriting competition right? It's like you know you pay your money and you takes your chance. Um, you know the the likelihood of getting your your song to.

32:54.55

Eyvindur

Um, right.

33:00.23

Eyvindur

Um, yeah.

33:06.81

Nick Morrison

Um, ah a a singer that's going to have a multi-selling Platinum Album is relatively low. But I mean it is Anyway, it doesn't matter where you are um, but still the chances there and I think that's that's the difference between something like a songwriting competition and something like submitting to a listing. Um.

33:12.12

Eyvindur

Um, yeah.

33:24.67

Nick Morrison

And again having industry professionals actually hear it and and give you feedback and then pass it on to the other industry professionals that can actually do something with your music. Um, whereas you know the music competitions and the songwriting competitions and things more than anything else. It's usually just an ego boost. You know, not that there's anything wrong with that. Um.

33:26.15

Eyvindur

Yeah.

33:39.25

Eyvindur

Yeah now.

33:44.23

Nick Morrison

You know? and again if you're going into it and part of the competition is you actually do get feedback and you learn how to write better songs and these sorts of things then it makes sense. Um, but yeah, by the most part you know those types of things are usually a waste of money and honestly like we've got something here in Canada I don't know if you probably don't in where you are, but.

33:50.97

Eyvindur

Um.

34:03.52

Nick Morrison

Um, there's a company called landmark events and what these motherfuckers do sorry I'm allowed to say that on the radio on your podcast. So with these sorry my apolog is I should have asked first but what these motherfuckers do is they pray on teenagers and they say hey we've got this great. Um.

34:07.80

Eyvindur

Sure why not? yeah, that's fine right.

34:22.96

Nick Morrison

Open open mic band stage. We're going to. We're coming to your town and we're going to invite the top 10 bands in your city to come and compete on our stage and the winner is going to move on to like the semifinals in another city blah blah blah and there's prizes to you know, $500 prize and.

34:24.77

Eyvindur

Um, yeah.

34:40.83

Nick Morrison

Sort of prize and production and Cd Blah Blah Blah Blah blah and basically you pay to enter and then you have to sell a minimum amount amount of tickets or you don't qualify to perform on stage. So it's pay to play so that kind of thing is is wrong.

34:41.94

Eyvindur

M. Um, great. Um, what? Oh yeah, Yeah yeah, yes.

35:00.60

Nick Morrison

And manipulative and you know predatory and so those are those sorts of things you want to avoid? Um, and yeah, you know there are no shortages of those types of sites those types of people those types of companies that exist all around the world and. You know I'm I I literally I'm happy to say the taxi is not one of them The other cool thing and I'll stop talking about them in a minute because I feel like I don't you know I feel like this is maybe turned into a commercial from taxi which I didn't really mean it to be. Um, yeah maybe I should maybe I should send them an email and see if I can.

35:26.60

Eyvindur

We need. We need to go and get get as some sponsorships here.

35:35.27

Nick Morrison

Ah, start getting commission on Memberships or something. No, that's ridiculous, but um I at the bare minimum I feel like you know as a member or an ex- member if I'm willing to talk about them this much that should say something but the the other point is is they actually organize what they call the road rally.

35:36.35

Eyvindur

Yeah.

35:47.78

Eyvindur

Sure.

35:53.79

Nick Morrison

Um, and obviously over the past couple of years with covid they haven't been able to have it although they haven't done a virtual meet up event but they actually host a big weekend long I think it's four or five days now where they they they rent out an entire hotel in a ballroom or several ballrooms and conference rooms and they bring all the members or every every member that can come. Um, all converge in that one spot for that weekend and they invite industry panelists. They invite real a and r people they invite music supervisors they look for production company heads marketing heads all of this and they all come and you have a chance to mix and mingle and meet all of these industry professionals in 1 place.

36:29.39

Eyvindur

Um, oh yeah.

36:33.51

Nick Morrison

That for me. Um, and I I actually did ah one of these kind of like a podcast or like a video interview with ah with another with another songwriting friend of mine who actually we met through taxi. Um, but you know he he was saying the same thing it was like that was the best part of my membership was going there and the industry connections that I made.

36:42.83

Eyvindur

Yeah.

36:48.59

Eyvindur

Yeah. Um.

36:53.31

Nick Morrison

At that live event with an actual music supervisor was what landed me my first like big time paying job and he went on to um I wouldn't call it a staff writer but he was like contracted to Harpo Productions and did yeah and spent like 2 years writing music for.

37:06.63

Eyvindur

Wow.

37:12.81

Nick Morrison

You know, whole host of shows for that giant and for those of your listeners who don't know what Harpo Productions is that's Oprah Winfrey's production company so they did the Oprah show. Dr. Oz Dr. Phil those are sort of the 3 biggest ones, but they also do a whole bunch of other smaller lower level Rachel Ray as well. Yeah, right? so.

37:19.61

Eyvindur

Yeah. Yeah, Rachel Ray ma'am

37:32.75

Nick Morrison

That's that's the caliber of people that you're getting to meet through that through that thing. Um, yeah, very very cool.

37:37.19

Eyvindur

That's that's insane. It's insane. Um, and ah what I mean you you mentioned before that it's it's you know there are niches and is it niches or niches. It's it's both isn't it. Ah.

37:46.38

Nick Morrison

Yes I think it's niche Americans tend to say niche. There's no T though it does Yes, they they say there's riches in the niches. Yeah yeah.

37:53.81

Eyvindur

Yeah, it's because it's rhyme because it rhymes with rich. Ah, yeah, yeah, yeah, so there's rees in the niches. Ah so ah so I guess you know any kind of music has potential but but is there something.

38:09.53

Nick Morrison

Hundred percent

38:12.99

Eyvindur

Is there anything that you know is ah you know this is or I guess that's subject to Trends I suppose.

38:16.30

Nick Morrison

Yeah, absolutely you know what was happening in like 2008 2009 when I was getting my start was um, the trend for music like placements in shows was a lot of like trendy up and coming garage bands like.

38:34.00

Eyvindur

Sure, um.

38:36.25

Nick Morrison

Bands that were like just about to break so they actually had a little bit of polish on their sound but they still had that sort of Raw young energy and and a lot of music supervisors and a lot of licensing agencies. Um, we're looking to license tracks from bands.

38:52.70

Eyvindur

Yeah.

38:55.11

Nick Morrison

Um, so and and a lot of it was like sort of rock band. So you know, whatever permutation you want to take of that right? like guitar based drums vocals um guitars keyboards you know, etc, etc and that was kind of then and then we saw a little bit of a shift away from that to more. Um. Sort of like electronic-based stuff and a little bit more um I don't want to say digital because everything's digital now. But like a little bit more like um, progressive electronic like more future type stuff. Um sort of in the early 2010 s and then.

39:25.99

Eyvindur

Right.

39:31.74

Nick Morrison

When Christopher Nolan's Batman came out which would have been 2012 I think maybe 2000 and love 2000 so so Han Zim I think it was Hans Zimmer that did that one I yeah it is everything actually interesting about him. He actually doesn't most of the music that you hear that has Hans Zimmer name on it. He doesn't write. It's actually his interns. That's a whole other.

39:32.50

Eyvindur

Um, brown then yeah, probably he does everything.

39:48.49

Eyvindur

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's that's what most most producers do as well. It's you know.

39:51.32

Nick Morrison

Conversation. But um, yeah, um, you yeah you you work for him either for very very minimal salary or no salary but you get to work with Hans Zimmer and then that goes on your your resume and then you get to get hired and and placed and you know have good careers. Um.

40:02.61

Eyvindur

Yeah, yeah, right.

40:11.23

Nick Morrison

Where was I going with this oh so Christopher Nolan's Batman came out and then interstellar was the other big one and those 2 movies sort of shifted the demand for a lot of stuff and you started getting a lot of like drone type queues. So like like really low basey.

40:14.74

Eyvindur

Right.

40:29.10

Eyvindur

Yeah.

40:30.50

Nick Morrison

Atmospheric moody type stuff. Um and big bombastic huge like wall of sound block like just huge over-the-t top production type stuff and that really changed the scope of what Tv shows and and and you know movies were really looking for.

40:39.14

Eyvindur

Yeah.

40:49.14

Nick Morrison

Um, and then and again these are trends that sort of start coming up. So if you want to see what's trendy and and kind of happening in your particular niche. You know, find the channels that use music or find the shows that use music close to what you produce and you'll see kind of where it's getting placed. Um one of the things that's.

41:05.28

Eyvindur

Um, yeah.

41:09.13

Nick Morrison

Always I think and vogue to use ah an older term but I like single instrument so like ah a melancholic guitar you know or a happy guitar like a strum or like a Travis picked you know guitar thing a happy or like a melodic flute like a single instrument.

41:16.66

Eyvindur

Um, yeah, yeah. Sure.

41:28.33

Nick Morrison

Stuff like that can be used in myriad ways and it will always be on trend No matter else. What else is going on in the business but to your point. Yeah, everything can be Everything can be a niche. Everything can be used all it takes is the right placement the right supervisor to hear your stuff and the right scene.

41:29.92

Eyvindur

Um.

41:37.10

Eyvindur

That's a great tip.

41:45.21

Eyvindur

Yeah, of course.

41:47.64

Nick Morrison

Um, which is going back actually to your asking about how to get started one of the best things that I think you or any up and cominging composer could do um you know or even full-time composer like if you if you're already in it and you're just looking to expand talk to young Filmmakers. You know at the college or University or you know even like college of art and design or whatever that you've got if there are people that are that are studying film. They need music for their films and boy would they love to have a professionally written and professionally produced piece of music for their 6 ix-minute film.

42:05.85

Eyvindur

Mm.

42:11.56

Eyvindur

Yeah.

42:20.10

Eyvindur

Yeah.

42:22.25

Nick Morrison

Um, either something that fits beautifully or even custom composed. The first time you do it, you might have to do it for free or for very minimal or maybe a slice of pizza. You know, like that kind of thing but those people when you network and you're able to connect with those people and you do them that amazing favor. You're providing killer value for their.

42:25.90

Eyvindur

Um, yeah, of course. Yeah.

42:36.66

Eyvindur

Um, yeah.

42:41.35

Nick Morrison

You know for their project for their work for their for their portfolio. They're gonna remember you in five years six years seven years eight years when now they get the big Hollywood contract and they go yeah I remember I remember him he he really helped me out I'm gonna give him a call I wonder if he's still available. You know and and those and you don't do it for that.

42:44.79

Eyvindur

Oh yeah.

42:54.40

Eyvindur

Yeah, yeah.

42:59.77

Nick Morrison

Like Narcissistic sort of selfish self-serving way. But that's the that's the benefit of making those connections early if you can't you know.

43:06.99

Eyvindur

And and that's you know, going off on a tangent but I like tangents. Ah you know we've we discussed this a couple of days ago when we when we first connected that you know, um, and and this goes back to what you were saying before as well about.

43:11.31

Nick Morrison

M.

43:23.48

Nick Morrison

Yeah.

43:24.87

Eyvindur

Networking and and meeting people and all of that stuff. Um, which has tragically been very hard over the last couple of years but ah, but it's It's so important I think and and I'm always trying to get better at it because I'm like many musicians I'm a bit introverted and.

43:30.33

Nick Morrison

Absolutely.

43:42.15

Nick Morrison

So totally.

43:44.17

Eyvindur

Not, It's not my favorite thing to do to go out and meet new people. But I try to do it as much as I can because I think that ah making those connections and you know and helping people out whenever you can. It's.. It's so important and I always you know I'm not I'm not a religious person I'm not a spiritual person per se although my spirituality is kind of just creativity I think that's kind of where my sort of thing falls. But I think I am a believer in Karma in.

44:07.78

Nick Morrison

M.

44:16.27

Eyvindur

But in just a real world way in that you know what goes around comes around and you know if you if you make sure to treat the people around. Are you good and you make sure to help people out whenever you can and you know give people.

44:18.99

Nick Morrison

Totally.

44:32.11

Nick Morrison

Yes, absolutely always and it's a small business. You know music in general is a small business but when you start getting into film and Tv. It's very small. You know there are a few players that are making really big money and then there's a few more.

44:32.45

Eyvindur

You know, just keep giving be a giver I think it it always comes back? Um, yeah.

44:42.38

Eyvindur

Yeah, listen.

44:50.65

Nick Morrison

That are making decent money like making a good living you know and then everybody else is kind of floundering but like once you make it kind of past that that barrier where you can actually make some money and you you know you've got some professional contacts and you're doing good work and people are recognizing you for it. It's a very small world.

44:50.94

Eyvindur

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

45:08.66

Nick Morrison

It's ah it's It's extremely small. Um, and so yeah, again, it's just be good. Be a good person be be be easy to work with you know, ah do what you say? you're going to do and do it when you say you're going to do it right? Um, nothing.

45:08.90

Eyvindur

Yep.

45:16.35

Eyvindur

Yep, yeah.

45:25.14

Nick Morrison

Nothing will end a contract with ah with a music supervisor faster than you committing to a you know a two day. Let a deadline and then missing it you know or or not being able to deliver a change like once you've delivered your music and they're like oh my god this is perfect. We love it. But we need actually can you button the end at 3

45:31.10

Eyvindur

Um, yeah, yeah, yeah, no absolutely.

45:43.70

Nick Morrison

Can you button the ending 3 seconds earlier which of course means going back in and rerecording everything like it's not just like a cut and paste I can't just edit 3 seconds off a piece of music. Um, but you have to be able to deliver that level and like you have I've gotten calls like this.

45:43.74

Eyvindur

M.

45:50.38

Eyvindur

Right? no.

45:56.48

Eyvindur

Um, yeah.

45:58.79

Nick Morrison

They're like yeah we love it but blah blah blah blah. We need you to change dot dot dot and we need that in 6 hours oh shit okay well I'm out to dinner with my wife right now. But we're I'm going home and I'm getting this done you know because you know that if you miss that opportunity and you can't deliver that bridge is now burned and they're never.

46:01.40

Eyvindur

Yeah.

46:07.56

Eyvindur

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

46:17.76

Nick Morrison

You know again, there's always ah gradations to this but you know you really don't get very many chances. So again, you want to treat people like gold and and and you know nobody likes a diva so be easy to work with and and you'll get more work. Um, you know and again.

46:20.92

Eyvindur

Of course. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No yet. Yeah yeah.

46:35.55

Nick Morrison

The networking point you know be a good hang. You know I don't know if you've ever been on the road as a musician or if you've traveled with your theater groups or theater companies that you've worked for but like you know who wants to hang out with the with the guy or the gal that's complaining about how lousy the coffee was and they didn't get enough to eat and they didn't get the nut like you know.

46:40.76

Eyvindur

Sure.

46:54.82

Nick Morrison

It's already stressful enough I don't want to listen to you bitch and moan and that person usually won't get invited to the next tour right? They're not going to get hired again. Um, so yeah.

46:55.52

Eyvindur

Um, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, ah, but you know and this is you know I'm like deadlines and and speed writinging and all of that is kind of my.

47:11.50

Nick Morrison

E.

47:14.63

Eyvindur

That's my bag I I'm all of I always say you know the the faster you can write the more you can write and the more you write the better you write. So so you know I always you know they always say you know yeah quality over quantity. But I say no because with quantity comes quality. You know if you've only written 5 songs.

47:20.48

Nick Morrison

A hundred percent

47:29.86

Nick Morrison

Yes.

47:33.88

Eyvindur

Then if they're all good great. But then you're some kind of miracle person and that's weird. Yeah, or you got lucky exactly and then you know where are you gonna be 10 years down the line when you still only have 5 songs so you know I'm all about that and and I I have the feeling that.

47:34.63

Nick Morrison

Yeah, awesome or you got lucky now.

47:45.75

Nick Morrison

Yes, yeah.

47:52.78

Eyvindur

This like so much of music in today's business is a numbers game right? You need to have a lot of material. So um and I was kind of thinking because I I do love setting goals. Um, ah and so let's say that.

47:57.37

Nick Morrison

Totally yes.

48:12.72

Eyvindur

Ah, you know you wanted to to have a lot of stuff out there and in in libraries and I guess you'd probably want to spread them around different kinds of libraries and things like that you probably don't want to especially if some of them are exclusive. You don't want all your but eggs in 1 basket and things. But how many like.

48:14.62

Nick Morrison

E.

48:21.97

Nick Morrison

Sure.

48:30.70

Eyvindur

What would you say is a good number to shoot for if you want to if you go and say okay I'm going to commit to this I'm going to do it seriously and I'm going to you know in a year's time or in two years time or whatever I'm going to have enough hooks in the water to have regular income coming in from from those music libraries and things.

48:37.14

Nick Morrison

Um, yeah, yeah. Yeah, so I think if you want to make ah like a full time income and so this is based on like North American Standards so like let's say somewhere between like.

48:49.45

Eyvindur

What's that What's a what's a number to shoot for.

48:54.82

Eyvindur

M.

49:02.45

Nick Morrison

And this is broad range but like somewhere because every again placements are going to different and you're going to get different rates and different stuff and you you never know something might just like hit and go crazy but like somewhere between like let's call it 80 to one hundred and fifty thousand dollars a year again big range. But I think that's that's a fair number to shoot for.

49:04.66

Eyvindur

Of course.

49:18.35

Eyvindur

That's a yeah, pretty good.

49:19.34

Nick Morrison

You should look at having anywhere from about 150 to 200 pieces placed and working for you at any given time. So that's not necessarily in libraries that's actively being used so what that means in terms of like actual volume for your creative.

49:31.89

Eyvindur

That's right actually beingards. Okay.

49:38.14

Eyvindur

Yeah, yeah.

49:38.16

Nick Morrison

Asset portfolio. Let's call it that you're probably going to need um anywhere between 800 to a thousand pieces that you actually have placed and and in libraries that they are actively.

49:46.46

Eyvindur

Okay.

49:56.90

Nick Morrison

Ah, selling your music for you now again, these are rough numbers some some hit that with far fewer and others hit it with way more. But I feel like that's a pretty good range because again, it's all numbers right? like you you said it perfectly. Um and to get back to our conversation earlier where were we talking about niches I feel like the more.

49:56.58

Eyvindur

Sure.

50:01.96

Eyvindur

Um, yeah, yeah, yeah.

50:15.91

Nick Morrison

Niche specific. You can be and the better that a library knows who you are and knows what type of music you create and how to use your music and what it does the the higher your chances of getting those placements are so it's funny because guys creatives. Usually we don't want to pigeonhole ourselves right? We're like well you know my band is.

50:22.77

Eyvindur

Um, yeah.

50:31.70

Eyvindur

Yeah.

50:35.50

Nick Morrison

Kind of a combination of like you know Hendrix if if if Hendrix met deep purple but then they had a baby with Miley Cyrus and then they were mixed by you know Elo and then you know Brian Setzer came in and played guitar for them. That's kind of my thing. What the hell is that nobody understands right.

50:46.28

Eyvindur

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

50:52.59

Nick Morrison

And I mean I get it as ah as a creative you're like again, we don't want to be pigeonholed but you have to remember by and large we're not selling our music to other musicians. We're selling to business people. We're selling to visual artists so you have to be able to explain your music to them in a visual sense or in a.

51:00.66

Eyvindur

Um, yeah, yes.

51:12.29

Nick Morrison

Business dollars and cents cents so that they can understand what your music is going to do for them so again, the more niche you can get you know Nick is the guitar rock the hard rock guitar guy right? or ah.

51:12.46

Eyvindur

Um, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, ah.

51:26.49

Eyvindur

Yeah.

51:31.16

Nick Morrison

You know the the orchestra guy right? Rock music with with strings in the background or you know Nick is the what? ah you know fill in the blank here. Whatever that niche is and then more narrow you can get the more laser focused and quickly you'll be able to get those successful placements because people will know what to do with you and.

51:32.31

Eyvindur

Yeah, sure. Yeah.

51:50.20

Nick Morrison

Know what to do with your music. So I think that's a really big helpful tip and something that I had to learn initially because I had been a songwriter I'd had bands I'd had several Cds and again you know, kind of going through the the placement agency thing I was like cool and I was submitting my band songs to like just kind of everything and anything I was like yeah this would be great Blah blah Blah Blah blah because I was.

51:50.25

Eyvindur

Sure.

52:04.18

Eyvindur

Yeah.

52:08.78

Nick Morrison

I love the music and it was great music. But if you pull it apart. It didn't at all fit with what they were asking for. You know the 1 thing it fit was like yeah it's got guitars and drums you know, but it didn't you know it didn't fit the the listing that it it didn't fit the the um what we call like the memo. You know the style memo at all other than that.

52:13.49

Eyvindur

Oh here.

52:24.68

Eyvindur

Sure yeah.

52:28.60

Nick Morrison

So um, again, if you can if you can get that you know, really really dialed in. You're going to find a lot of success much faster. Um, you know and the other thing too is that that will then help you in your endeavors on social media on Youtube on Facebook like anything else that you're wanting to.

52:42.35

Eyvindur

Um.

52:48.21

Nick Morrison

You know, sort of advertise and promote outside of just you know placements. Um it lets people find you better and better. These algorithms are perfectly set up to do it even better than people right to get your music like if you make a lyric video or you make just even a song that you putting on Youtube or whatever. Um.

52:53.14

Eyvindur

Um, yeah. Um, yeah.

53:06.50

Nick Morrison

It's set up perfectly to suggest your content to a user that's going to like it and the more specific It is the more people will find you which then and this goes back to another question that you had earlier in terms of like other things that you can do a highly.

53:10.17

Eyvindur

Yeah, exactly.

53:22.32

Nick Morrison

Highly recommend getting stuff on if you if you don't have any other placements or any other way to get stuff out there. Get your music up on Youtube get it up on Soundcloud um I hate spotify don't use Spotify. Um, but you know places where people can find. Yeah, um, it's got nothing to do with Neil it's more.

53:34.92

Eyvindur

Ah, all right Neil just kid sure of course. Yeah.

53:41.85

Nick Morrison

It's more about how they treat artists and the the lack of money that they pay for the people that are you know, really creating the content that they sell if you think about it. But that's again, that's a whole other conversation. Um, but like things like Youtube and whatever because it gets you out there. It gets you plays it gets you views. It raises your.

53:48.40

Eyvindur

Yeah.

54:00.80

Nick Morrison

Cultural or social awareness and credentials if you want and you never know who's listening and where and they may end up contacting it and this happened to me last year two years ago I had ah you know, um someone reach out to me and say hey I really like this piece of music.

54:02.17

Eyvindur

Ensure.

54:17.50

Nick Morrison

Can I use it in ah in a video that I'm going to be doing and I'm like oh cool, you know what's going on bla blah blah turned out they were creating and a marketing campaign for Google so I'm like oh okay, great. You know, chaching right? like yes, absolutely let's make this happen. Um, but so again, you you know.

54:23.69

Eyvindur

To all, right? Yeah yeah.

54:35.27

Nick Morrison

Sometimes there's a bit of luck in all of this as well Like let's not discount that you know with all things.

54:36.32

Eyvindur

Of course. Yeah, yeah, there was I remember 1 time my friend he was this was so so dodgy. But anyway my friend he was ah he starred in ah in a very very small film independent film.

54:51.60

Nick Morrison

Okay.

54:56.40

Eyvindur

But his first he's a comedian and he was playing sort of a version of himself and it was a really cool idea and it was a good film. Ah, but this guy just like bootstrapped it. He just he just financed it all himself. He he wrote it. He directed it. He shot it. He edited it. He did everything.

55:06.98

Nick Morrison

Right.

55:14.60

Eyvindur

And um, and so my friend you know he was really excited I was very excited for him. He's one of my best friends he was the best met at my wedding I was like awesome Your first you know leading role in a movie. Fantastic Um, and his face was like on the side of the Cinema was very exciting and he.

55:25.76

Nick Morrison

Yeah. Very cool.

55:33.63

Eyvindur

He asked me he he invited me to the premiere I was like of course I'm going. Yes, um, and then the it was the day before or the day of I think the premiere I got a message on Facebook from the from the director he was like oh hey ah can I use your song. In the movie I was like you just put it in there ages ago. Didn't you and you didn't you weren't going to ask me. But then you found out I was coming tonight and I was like of course you can. Yes, thank you! That's very flattering but but I thought that this is this is a very dodgy timing.

55:57.62

Nick Morrison

Yeah. Ah, yeah, yeah, oh that's funny. Yeah,, that's Great. You know and that yeah yeah.

56:11.63

Eyvindur

For you to be asking me this? ah but it was good and I was very I was very excited to hear my song in the movie. It was great.

56:20.75

Nick Morrison

And that that first time is always so I mean I still remember the very first time I heard a piece of music that I created um you know on the radio I still remember that the first time and then and the first time I wrote something for Tv and I saw it in the show on like Tv that I knew millions of other people were seeing I was like holy like it's ah it's an experiences a trip.

56:32.45

Eyvindur

Um, yeah.

56:38.53

Eyvindur

Um, yeah, yeah, yeah.

56:40.74

Nick Morrison

It's really fun. Um, your head gets really big right? You're like I'm famous now ha ha and it lasts like you know, 15 seconds and you'll come on now nobody cares about music then that's the funny thing about music too right? Is it like everybody needs it. Everybody wants it. Everybody understands its cultural importance but convincing and this is.

56:55.65

Eyvindur

Um, yeah.

57:00.90

Nick Morrison

Kind of go down the dark rabbit hole of of modern entity. But um, nobody wants to pay for it least of all music production houses or not music production houses but like movie production houses and Tv productions. It's always the very last thing they think about and it's always the the least part of the budget even though it's really that like picture your most.

57:04.21

Eyvindur

Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

57:18.80

Nick Morrison

Famous movie that you could possibly think of or the most poignant you know Tv movie or Tv scene or whatever of all time if you strip the music out of it. It loses like half or more of the feeling you know it's so important. Um, and people don't necessarily really realize that importance until they don't have it.

57:26.50

Eyvindur

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

57:38.42

Nick Morrison

But go back to your thing about you're saying you both the movies. Sorry this is a real quick tangent I think that's another great thing and this is again you know networking with up and coming film students up and coming filmmakers Independent film houses like that. Whatever else if you can if you can create or craft a relationship with an editor specifically an editor.

57:39.60

Eyvindur

Yeah, yeah.

57:57.80

Nick Morrison

Not even the filmmaker but the editor and you can filter him some of your music some tracks some songs. Whatever get him and what will end up happening him or her they'll end up using some of that music if they end up using some of their music in the cutting room as temporary tracks to cut the film to you've just like.

58:01.30

Eyvindur

Sure.

58:10.50

Eyvindur

Um, yeah, oh yeah, yeah.

58:16.81

Nick Morrison

10 x the likelihood that your music is actually going to be in that film because a the editor is used to it b the producer and the director and whatever else will be used to seeing it and then when they try to replace said music with something else. It won't feel right? Yeah and.

58:18.24

Eyvindur

The yeah.

58:24.30

Eyvindur

Um, yeah, exactly yeah, that's a great tip.

58:34.73

Nick Morrison

Your music will end up getting used in the final cut. So yeah, and again, you don't do it. You know you don't do it with that like selfish intention but that's something that can and does happen. Um, and and I can tell you for a fact I've lost out on placements specifically because.

58:44.80

Eyvindur

Yeah.

58:52.37

Nick Morrison

Said you know they've come back after the fact hey Nick we love the track. We love you know everything that you did thank you for your time blah blah blah but we're going to use the temp track that we cut to that. We've been using for three months and it's like well do of course you are because like's you know the whole the whole pulse and beat of the the timing of the thing that you're creating.

59:00.67

Eyvindur

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

59:10.73

Nick Morrison

Rested on that music. Of course you're not going to replace it. You know? yeah, can't fault them for it.

59:11.16

Eyvindur

Yeah, exactly That's no, that's a great That's a great great tip. So just get I have a couple of editor friends I need to gonna reach out to them. Yeah I But one of my friends just texted me.

59:21.56

Nick Morrison

Yeah, reach out to them. Give them a Cd right? Ah, it.

59:30.27

Eyvindur

Last week because of he was doing a segment on he works for Tv and he was doing a segment on bloody Sunday in Northern Ireland and so he was like what's a great song to put to you know because I'm all I'm so into irish music. So he's like.

59:37.39

Nick Morrison

E.

59:45.21

Nick Morrison

Right.

59:48.60

Eyvindur

What's a great song about the troubles. What's the great So you know I I was like well of course you got to use the townne I loved so well by the double nurse go on and and so he was very happy. So yeah, no I need to he actually knows my music pretty well so he um, yeah like I I could probably slip him a little something so um, anyway.

59:53.81

Nick Morrison

Yeah, and that's the one. Yeah. Yeah.

01:00:07.37

Eyvindur

This has been great. We could probably talk all day about this and you know yeah I've had a ton of fun and I've learned a lot. So ah.

01:00:08.64

Nick Morrison

Um, yeah.

01:00:20.30

Eyvindur

Before we say Goodbye Tell people where they can find you and and the stuff you do.

01:00:23.48

Nick Morrison

Totally um, you can find me all over if you um, go to Youtube it's http://youtube.com/samuraifingers I got the fingers of a samurai when I play guitar um I'm also on Twitter as samurai fingers.

01:00:34.40

Eyvindur

Samurai fingers.

01:00:40.19

Nick Morrison

Um, and Facebook I've got I've got a free group there which is educational content for guitar players. So it's http://facebook.com/groups/theguitardojo again keeping with the japanese theme did I mention I lived in Japan for about 5 years anyway um and my website is guitar dojo ca or if you're looking for. You know if anybody in your audience is looking for um, music production service consulting services that sort of thing they can find me Morrison Media Groupup Dot Com and that's kind of the more you know stodgy professional looking.

01:00:57.86

Eyvindur

Yeah.

01:01:09.18

Eyvindur

Cool.

01:01:15.90

Nick Morrison

You know website that I refer people to if they've never seen me or never met me like business folk. Oh yeah, http://morrissonedigroup.com and you like oh okay and I mean whatever you know some send me an email through there and we can get in touch. But that's basically where where folks can find me and you know I I make weekly Youtube content and teach guitar and have a fun.

01:01:17.27

Eyvindur

Right? Yeah yeah.

01:01:33.80

Nick Morrison

Have fun basically help people you know make music fun again. And yeah.

01:01:36.19

Eyvindur

Yeah, all right? yeah and all of these links will be in the in the show notes of course so Nick Morrison thinks all thank you. This was a blast and you know, um so nice to meet you. So ah yeah, see you later.

01:01:41.47

Nick Morrison

Totally thank you for having me I appreciate it.

01:01:52.35

Nick Morrison

Awesome Joe.